To save the next person a few clicks, these are Android apps forked from the Simple Mobile Tools collection when that was sold to ZipoApps.
agile-gift0262 14 hours ago [-]
I used to use many apps from Simple Mobile Tools and migrated to Fossify's forks when the whole acquisition thing happened. I just went back to check the Simple Mobile Tools to see the effect form ZipooApps' acquisition [1]. What a calamity. Most of them require way more permissions than they used to before the purchase, have trackers, ads and scam-feeling weekly subscriptions. Also probably in breach of the GPL licence they used to have, unless they have removed all the code contributed by third parties, as their GitHub [2] hasn't been updated, but the apps in the Play Store clearly have. And I seriously doubt they distribute the source code in any other way.
I just checked, and according to the reviews on the flashlight app the weekly subscription is $14.99 to remove ads. For a flashlight.
emaro 8 hours ago [-]
That's so unhinged it's almost funny again. I mean someone who pays 60$ a month for a flashlight app almost deserves it. Almost.
agile-gift0262 5 hours ago [-]
I assume they trick people with dark patterns and free trials so that they don't even know they are susbcribing or what's the price
raaron773 14 hours ago [-]
I switched to Goodwy. Granted they arent the best since they lock a lot of basic features behind paywall it does the job and their themes are actually decent and feel modern considering they use Material.
77pt77 9 hours ago [-]
Thanks.
Simple Mobile Gallery was removed from Fdroid so I wasn't getting updates.
Migrated to this.
The recorder app sucks though, which is a shame.
15 hours ago [-]
shellwizard 15 hours ago [-]
Thanks mate
solstice 12 hours ago [-]
I use them and like them. One thing to be aware of with the dialer (that might not be unique to Fossify): when dialing the number of an emergency service (like 112 in Germany), there is no indication in the app's UI that something is happening and it looks as if the call failed and you will be back looking at the dial pad, even though the call will eventually be connected. The reason is that these types of calls get handled by something deeper in the Android system and will show up neither in the "calling" UI of the dialer nor in the list of calls.
komali2 11 hours ago [-]
My phone crashing when I dialed 911 after a car accident was the reason I stopped messing around with android roots and custom roms and whatnot. When it comes to my phone being a phone, I need it to Just Work(tm)!
justinrubek 11 hours ago [-]
My personal motivation for doing these things is precisely because the device doesn't just work™ out of the box. If it was sufficient at its job, such hacks would not be required. It's because it isn't that they are reached for.
Yes, the current trade-off seems to be that stuff like that can break. That isn't the desired state, but it is what was prescribed by the manufacturer who seemingly has an interest in making the device less functional than it could be.
ryanmcbride 10 hours ago [-]
your phone can't dial 911 out of the box? I find that kind of hard to believe.
I remember reading a comment that it was really a VoLTE (Voice over LTE) problem.
VoLTE in general seemed to be quite complicated, what with both phones and carriers needing the correct configuration. IIRC they were working on more standardization to prevent these kinds of issues.
superb_dev 8 hours ago [-]
I wish there was an easy way for the layperson to test dial emergency services without connecting to a real operator.
Maybe a different 3 digit number that goes through all the same hoops as 911 but it answers with an automated success message then hangs up.
sudobash1 8 hours ago [-]
Actually there is. You just have to schedule it. I keep meaning to do this with my home VOIP phone.
> Test calls confirm that your local 911 service can receive your 911 call and has the correct location information. Test calls can be scheduled by contacting your local 911 call center via its non-emergency phone number.
Oh this is excellent to hear! I’ll have to remember this if I ever dive into voip again
SubzeroCarnage 8 hours ago [-]
Back when I was developing my DivestOS project, test calling 911 was actually a thing I tried to do each month for this reason.
There was one time where I did ship an update that broke select calls but I had it fixed on all devices in under 24 hours.
m463 6 hours ago [-]
don't know android, but ios does a lot of unspecified things during 911.
For example I have location services turned off, but a picture I took while on hold with 911 showed up in my camera roll with full location information. I suspect every app gets full precise location information during 911 (which sort of makes sense in a life-or-death situation)
I wouldn't be surprised if other stuff is affected, like networking/vpn, microphone, etc
creshal 8 hours ago [-]
Don't worry, that can happen on a stock Pixel phone too. Nobody in the Android ecosystem really cares about reliability.
solstice 10 hours ago [-]
damn, that sucks. I fully agree with the sentiment of your last sentence.
account-5 15 hours ago [-]
Annoyingly brilliant apps, used the old ones before they were sold off, now use these. If only there was other androi apps like this set for other things. Instead the vast majority of the shit (in the truest sense of the word) you get from play store is pretty much akin to malware but definitely spyware.
mcv 12 hours ago [-]
It's nearly impossible to find good, honest apps on the play store anymore. Everything is loaded with ads, in-app purchases, spyware, and wants way more permissions than it needs. Google is making it more and more attractive to completely sever the ties to the play store. Although there are a few things I still want from there.
genpfault 12 hours ago [-]
> Although there are a few things I still want from there.
Try the app Netguard which implements a nice firewall. I use it to disallow most apps network access with it. Some apps may be allowed to access the net when I'm on Wifi, but not when roaming. Netguard allows you to distinguish between Wifi and Roaming. And you can enable a protocol to check which connections are attempted if you want to to specifically disable certain targets.
Disclaimer: just a satisfied and paying customer.
Paradigm2020 9 hours ago [-]
Anyway to get net guard to work in combination with a VPN client (using wire guard )? (Using mullvad & mullvads client and can't get and netguard & mullvad to run at same time)
dongcarl 8 hours ago [-]
You may want to try using a generic WireGuard client (e.g. `wg-quick`) rather than Mullvad's client, you can generate a WireGuard config on Mullvad's website.
dspillett 7 hours ago [-]
> It's nearly impossible to find good, honest apps on the play store anymore.
The process of getting things into the app store can be a faf, an app maker who isn't making money off it is far less likely to bother than an app maker happy to flog your personal data for a few pennies, because the latter might make enough money to make it worth the effort.
n_plus_1_acc 12 hours ago [-]
I use aurora store to filter for ads and trackers
kissgyorgy 14 hours ago [-]
The apps are so simple, so clear, no fuss, no ads, no nothing. Just the functionality you need from every app. Excellent work!
This is the only project I immediately "donated" with the Thank You app.
tigrezno 13 hours ago [-]
Me too, but I hate having the useless Thank You app installed
prmoustache 12 hours ago [-]
You can donate, remove the thank you app and use the f-droid versions.
WillAdams 13 hours ago [-]
My phone came w/ a folder for apps from my service provider and I've been adding to it any apps which I don't interact with regularly (since I've been able to keep my apps down to a single screen so I don't have to scroll).
entropie 11 hours ago [-]
You can uninstall them via adb. For Example there are different "unbloat your samsung device" github pages which give you a list of apps you can safely remove.
Tijdreiziger 10 hours ago [-]
Instead of needing ADB, you can also go into Settings > Apps, turn on ‘show system apps’, and disable the ones you don’t want from there.
porridgeraisin 13 hours ago [-]
Yep, I had a crap folder for apps too. Until I switched to using T-UI as my launcher. Now I can only ever launch the apps I remember in my head since I need to type it out.
__rito__ 12 hours ago [-]
After my smartphone vendor's SMS app, and Google Messages both started serving me non-stop loans ads and gambling ads (never gambled ever in my life), I switched to Fossify Messages, and it has been going great for me. Never looked back.
sp0rk 12 hours ago [-]
Where are ads displayed in your Google Messages? I have never seen any ads and I struggle to even imagine where they would place an ad within its interface.
this is some dystopian bs. I've never realized goodle/android is in a such weird place
chrismorgan 9 hours ago [-]
And the whole lot bypasses your actual telco, so when you’re on your nation’s do-not-call register, you can’t even file a proper complaint, there isn’t even a number to report.
There is a solution even without changing app: disable RCS. Everything real is fine with SMS, so ads are the only casualty. I wonder if this stupidity helps kill the already-struggling RCS.
meonkeys 11 hours ago [-]
/e/ OS installed DIY or pre-installed by Murena (especially on a Fairphone) solves many of the issues mentioned in other threads. It's an AOSP fork with a simple decent launcher and near-zero bloatware (I only chose to disable weather and magic earth maps). Built-in access to many simpler and more user-respecting apps in F-Droid. Tracker protection and other privacy features. Works well with Nextcloud if you use that.
Doesn't fit everyone's use case. No iMessage, no RCS, no visual voicemail, no spatial audio. Personally I don't need or want any of that, I just want a smartphone I can mostly control.
tweetle_beetle 6 hours ago [-]
I'd suggest that while /e/ can work at a basic level, the list of cons is larger than you make out when I looked at it. The Murena team seems small and unable to keep up. As an example, look at the hoops users were jumping through for over a year just to attempt to use the camera at the advertised pixel count without the stock OS:
What's strangely missing from the list of FOSS android apps is a simple "pixel-like" launcher. I have some old devices that I use for small tasks, and I'd love to install the very basic launcher on them, basically the only thing I need is a paginated grid on the desktop, a scrollable list of apps in the main app menu, and a swipe up gesture to bring this menu. I checked a lot of launchers some time ago, and all of them either go hard into "minimalism/functionalism" and don't even show icons, or go deep into customization and fail to be lightweight.
glenstein 13 hours ago [-]
There is a Fossify Launcher beta on F-Droid.
mcv 12 hours ago [-]
I didn't know it was in beta, but I'm using their launcher. It's mostly great, except for widgets, which it frequently loses. But I can have way more icons on my homescreen than I used to have.
Genuine question – do Android people get ads in their OS default camera, calculator, calendar, phone, file-manager or SMS messaging applications? Or do have these Fossify application some extra privacy features that do not come with the default ones?
kotaKat 13 hours ago [-]
The default phone and SMS messaging application on all Tier 1 Android OEMs is required to be Google Phone and Google Messages. Also as such, Google stopped maintaining AOSP Dialer and AOSP Messages.
Tijdreiziger 10 hours ago [-]
I use a Samsung phone and it has Samsung’s phone and SMS apps.
johnisgood 5 hours ago [-]
I use stock Android, and all of the apps I am using are from F-Droid, I do not use Google's apps. I have them uninstalled.
You might want to check the permissions and such on the latest versions of those apps. Fossify is a fork of SimpleMobileTools but without the ads and trackers added by the new owners.
johnisgood 2 hours ago [-]
Tibor Kaputa seems to be the owner of the "Simple ..." ones. Still maintained.
So I should switch to Fossify?
tcfhgj 56 minutes ago [-]
Yes, switch
johnisgood 41 minutes ago [-]
Thanks, done.
2 hours ago [-]
polyaniline 13 hours ago [-]
As far as I'm concerned, I run LineageOS, which doesn't come with everything I need OTOB, so I use app suites like Fossify, Simple Mobile Tools and other great work. Others may just want alternatives to pre-installed or standard apps that are more private and tuneable (eg. I maintained a fork of KDE Connect until they switched to Material 3 colors, and still do for VLC) because they're open source.
glenstein 12 hours ago [-]
>Or do have these Fossify application some extra privacy features that do not come with the default ones?
It's this one. Google's built-in apps are closed source with undisclosed telemetry. Fossify are open source, and they don't send your contacts or calendar entries to Google. Google's apps also serve Google ecosystem lock-in, and Google's ecosystem serves ads.
The non-google options on the Play store give you the option of not sending telemetry to Google, but at the cost of typically violating privacy in other ways or including ads.
Fossify avoids either of those costs.
creshal 8 hours ago [-]
I stopped using the default apps when Google was forced by EU regulations to put a privacy policy popup in the stopwatch/alarm app because of course you need spyware in that.
prmoustache 12 hours ago [-]
Not having ads doesn't mean they aren't full of trackers.
Saris 12 hours ago [-]
No ads on the original apps, but these do have privacy benefits, they also just don't have useless features like the AI stuff that keeps getting crammed into default apps.
mcv 13 hours ago [-]
Everything Android seems to be increasingly enshittified these days.
I switched to Fossify gallery because I don't want my photos synced with google Photos anymore. When my default Messenger suddenly demanded access to my Google account, I looked for a replacement and all alternatives I could find on Google Play had ads, so again Fossify saved me. Love it so far.
Its Gallery looks similar to Fossify's. Its "About" seems almost identical, so I dunno.
13 hours ago [-]
anty 13 hours ago [-]
I don't see any ads on the mentioned apps on my Pixel phone.
I do have ads in the Play Store app and in the Gmail app, though.
interloxia 13 hours ago [-]
Google photos these days on my pixel constantly has various prompts to turn on their backup service.
It is so intrusive it might as well count as an ad.
Fortunately Aves is pretty good.
anty 12 hours ago [-]
Google Photos also sometimes promotes a printing service. I forgot about that.
phoronixrly 13 hours ago [-]
Us Android people like to use open-source software. A stark contrast to Apple people.
rmbyrro 12 hours ago [-]
I think many Apple users, especially people in the software industry, would prefer Apple software to be open source. It's not that they don't care, it's just that Apple quality is superior in multiple ways (hardware and software).
And it's not a coincidence that their software is closed. They can command ridiculously high margins and continue to invest in high quality products.
justinrubek 10 hours ago [-]
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree that Apple's software is superior. Their hardware would be a lot better if the software was.
Tijdreiziger 10 hours ago [-]
A lot of their software is better in many ways than e.g. Samsung’s software. However, you do run into artificial limitations (e.g. no sideloading).
degif 13 hours ago [-]
More power to it! I do agree on the other selling points (privacy focused and open-source) for the Fossify, just was wondering about the ads.
encom 8 hours ago [-]
Pixel 8a. No ads, but I do wonder why the stock Google calculator needs a privacy policy.
ksynwa 12 hours ago [-]
The default sms app showed me advertisements that seemed way too sophisticated for a medium like SMS or MMS. I had to disable a setting called "RCS Chat" to rid myself of that nonsense. I am pretty sure it isn't something that Google invented or something like that though so I'm not comfortable putting the blame squarely on them for it.
FrequentLurker 10 hours ago [-]
RCS is absolutely awful as it displays banner ads in your notifications. The notifications are far worse than what you get with SMS. It's the reason I turned off RCS as well.
reify 15 hours ago [-]
I use quite a few of the fossify apps.
love the calculator. with length, area, volume, mass, temperature and time calculations.
the gallery app. I like the renaming and proper deleting. easily remove exif metadata
non intrusive calender. I use it to set up my plant watering schedule.
messages, clear and easy to use
voice recorder, again simple and easy to use
All with absolutely minimal permissions..
NO ADS, no tracking, no data collecting
mcv 13 hours ago [-]
I'm very happy with their galley and messaging app. They're absolutely perfect.
I think I also have their launcher, but it regularly seems to lose my widgets. No idea why that's happening, but I clearly need to shop around a bit more. Or debug the issue?
I tried their keyboard, which is fine, but not quite what I'm looking for. I'm currently back to GBoard and unhappy with it. I need something that doesn't try to accidentally insert emojis everywhere.
jgarzik 11 hours ago [-]
Love this! I had the same idea, and was pondering funding apps like this. Was going to call it "SimpleFree" and focus on privacy, offline, mobile, games.
dingdingdang 15 hours ago [-]
I love these projects, a simple way to collectively cleanly payroll a-person/persons to work on these projects would be superb. Structuring of the Zig org is a light-in-the-dark for this sort of thing!
aquir 14 hours ago [-]
Do we / can we have something like these in the Apple Ecosystem?
Saris 12 hours ago [-]
Does iOS even allow using a different SMS app? They're pretty locked down usually..
Unboxed1078 10 hours ago [-]
Not yet, but it will allow changing the Phone and Messages app in the EU soon with iOS 26.
that bit on
> “could end up like simple tools” hits.
seen this before: forks start strong, get love on HN and reddit, but slowly stall. either one dev's doing too much or nobody else steps in. fdroid’s full of ghosts like that. would be smart if fossify locks focus on 3to4 core apps first, builds a contributor base now not later. maintenance isn't exciting, but that's what kills most clean forks
edvardas 15 hours ago [-]
I was tired of constant popups in stock apps for features I don't want.
Fossify apps get the job down surprisingly well, no more no less.
I use their apps for messaging, gallery, file manager, paint, contacts
mcv 13 hours ago [-]
I've recently started using several Fossify apps from F-Droid, mostly because it's become impossible to find good non-enshittified apps on Google Play anymore. I don't know if Fossify is the best, but it seems to be a pretty good baseline. Although their launcher and keyboard are lacking. Still looking for something better there.
wpollock 7 hours ago [-]
Have you tried Unexpected Keyboard?
crtasm 11 hours ago [-]
I was still using an old version of Simple Tools Gallery - thanks for the reminder to try these. I will donate too.
devnull3 12 hours ago [-]
Is there any list of games with same focus on being ad-free?
Does not have to be free.
cfiggers 7 hours ago [-]
Pathos is a NetHack-inspired but mobile-interface-first roguelike dungeon crawler packed with features and with no ads or micro transactions.
tisdadd 11 hours ago [-]
You can use f-droid game category. It will say anti-features if it has ada, but don't think many did when I loaded an older tablet for the kiddos.
Paradigm2020 8 hours ago [-]
Polytopia, Alto's Odyssey and alto's adventure, monument valley, mindustry
Imustaskforhelp 13 hours ago [-]
I use fossify. its genuinely good.
encom 14 hours ago [-]
Was recommended the calendar app by a colleague recently, after I complained about how crap the FastMail app is. So far I like it a lot. Does exactly what I need, and nothing more. Together with FairEmail, I can finally purge FastMail from my phone. (I like FastMail as a mail host, just not their app)
globular-toast 14 hours ago [-]
Another calendar app, developed in 2025, that uses the ridiculous and antiquated "month" view.
coldtea 13 hours ago [-]
"antiquated" or "ridiculous" sounds like, err, your opinion, man.
Many people prefer the month view.
encom 13 hours ago [-]
I like the month view. This is for my personal calendar, and I'm not so busy that I need a narrower view. Month view is nice for seeing what's coming up in the near future. However, you can set the calendar to whatever view you want.
globular-toast 11 hours ago [-]
You can't see what's coming up in the future if it's the last week of the month. But, hey, you can see three weeks into the past! So useful.
hans_castorp 13 hours ago [-]
If you don't like the monthly view, choose one of the other views.
I actually like the Monthly + Daily.
basemi 13 hours ago [-]
"Month view" is useful when I need a wide view on a specific month.
tigrezno 13 hours ago [-]
I also use the monthly view
Saris 12 hours ago [-]
That's the only view I use. How on earth is it 'antiquated' lol
globular-toast 11 hours ago [-]
It's based on a paper calendar that you would hang up on the wall. You know, from before we had screens about 50 years ago.
Saris 9 hours ago [-]
Month view is the most useful for me since I can easily see what's coming up, and on what day by where it lies on the calendar grid.
Agenga view is not as useful for me because it doesn't allow quickly scanning events and knowing what is 1 week out, 2 weeks out, etc without stopping and thinking about the dates. Week based views don't show far enough ahead.
I find it amusing and strange that you dislike the view so much you think it should be removed from calendar apps, instead of just switching to a view you like in settings.
globular-toast 9 hours ago [-]
You can't see what's coming up if it's the last week of the month.
It's funny how people just can't imagine any other view than the ones all calendar apps have had for the past 30+ years. The only one to do it remotely correct is Apple.
Saris 8 hours ago [-]
If you flip to the next month it shows the last 5 days or so of the last month as well.
laci37 13 hours ago [-]
This really tells a story about the sad state of android devices, that you have to use third party apps for basic stuff like the file manager to avoid spyware/adware.
rmbyrro 12 hours ago [-]
I use hundreds, if not thousands, of third party software in my Linux OS and I don't think the OS is in a sad state.
neiesc 12 hours ago [-]
Awesome thx!
guerrilla 12 hours ago [-]
Is this the suite that was originally made by Germans or is that a different one?
1: https://play.google.com/store/apps/dev?id=821434617619498026...
2: https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools
Simple Mobile Gallery was removed from Fdroid so I wasn't getting updates.
Migrated to this.
The recorder app sucks though, which is a shame.
Yes, the current trade-off seems to be that stuff like that can break. That isn't the desired state, but it is what was prescribed by the manufacturer who seemingly has an interest in making the device less functional than it could be.
VoLTE in general seemed to be quite complicated, what with both phones and carriers needing the correct configuration. IIRC they were working on more standardization to prevent these kinds of issues.
Maybe a different 3 digit number that goes through all the same hoops as 911 but it answers with an automated success message then hangs up.
> Test calls confirm that your local 911 service can receive your 911 call and has the correct location information. Test calls can be scheduled by contacting your local 911 call center via its non-emergency phone number.
https://www.911.gov/calling-911/frequently-asked-questions/
There was one time where I did ship an update that broke select calls but I had it fixed on all devices in under 24 hours.
For example I have location services turned off, but a picture I took while on hold with 911 showed up in my camera roll with full location information. I suspect every app gets full precise location information during 911 (which sort of makes sense in a life-or-death situation)
I wouldn't be surprised if other stuff is affected, like networking/vpn, microphone, etc
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.aurora.store/
https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraStore
Disclaimer: just a satisfied and paying customer.
The process of getting things into the app store can be a faf, an app maker who isn't making money off it is far less likely to bother than an app maker happy to flog your personal data for a few pennies, because the latter might make enough money to make it worth the effort.
This is the only project I immediately "donated" with the Thank You app.
They sometimes look like this, too [JPG]: https://static1.anpoimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/...
There is a solution even without changing app: disable RCS. Everything real is fine with SMS, so ads are the only casualty. I wonder if this stupidity helps kill the already-struggling RCS.
Doesn't fit everyone's use case. No iMessage, no RCS, no visual voicemail, no spatial audio. Personally I don't need or want any of that, I just want a smartphone I can mostly control.
https://forum.fairphone.com/t/for-a-better-camera-on-degoogl...
Also visual voicemail should actually work just fine on select carriers.
- https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issu...
Many of the apps I am using (Gallery, Dialer, Contacts, Camera) are from https://simplemobiletools.com. Source code: https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools. Its Gallery looks similar to Fossify's. Its "About" seems almost identical, so I dunno.
So I should switch to Fossify?
It's this one. Google's built-in apps are closed source with undisclosed telemetry. Fossify are open source, and they don't send your contacts or calendar entries to Google. Google's apps also serve Google ecosystem lock-in, and Google's ecosystem serves ads.
The non-google options on the Play store give you the option of not sending telemetry to Google, but at the cost of typically violating privacy in other ways or including ads.
Fossify avoids either of those costs.
I switched to Fossify gallery because I don't want my photos synced with google Photos anymore. When my default Messenger suddenly demanded access to my Google account, I looked for a replacement and all alternatives I could find on Google Play had ads, so again Fossify saved me. Love it so far.
Its Gallery looks similar to Fossify's. Its "About" seems almost identical, so I dunno.
I do have ads in the Play Store app and in the Gmail app, though.
It is so intrusive it might as well count as an ad.
Fortunately Aves is pretty good.
And it's not a coincidence that their software is closed. They can command ridiculously high margins and continue to invest in high quality products.
love the calculator. with length, area, volume, mass, temperature and time calculations.
the gallery app. I like the renaming and proper deleting. easily remove exif metadata
non intrusive calender. I use it to set up my plant watering schedule.
messages, clear and easy to use
voice recorder, again simple and easy to use
All with absolutely minimal permissions..
NO ADS, no tracking, no data collecting
I think I also have their launcher, but it regularly seems to lose my widgets. No idea why that's happening, but I clearly need to shop around a bit more. Or debug the issue?
I tried their keyboard, which is fine, but not quite what I'm looking for. I'm currently back to GBoard and unhappy with it. I need something that doesn't try to accidentally insert emojis everywhere.
https://www.heise.de/en/news/Phone-and-text-messages-Apple-o...
seen this before: forks start strong, get love on HN and reddit, but slowly stall. either one dev's doing too much or nobody else steps in. fdroid’s full of ghosts like that. would be smart if fossify locks focus on 3to4 core apps first, builds a contributor base now not later. maintenance isn't exciting, but that's what kills most clean forks
Fossify apps get the job down surprisingly well, no more no less.
I use their apps for messaging, gallery, file manager, paint, contacts
Many people prefer the month view.
I actually like the Monthly + Daily.
Agenga view is not as useful for me because it doesn't allow quickly scanning events and knowing what is 1 week out, 2 weeks out, etc without stopping and thinking about the dates. Week based views don't show far enough ahead.
I find it amusing and strange that you dislike the view so much you think it should be removed from calendar apps, instead of just switching to a view you like in settings.
It's funny how people just can't imagine any other view than the ones all calendar apps have had for the past 30+ years. The only one to do it remotely correct is Apple.